tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post6215485179825816126..comments2024-03-09T10:14:07.193+00:00Comments on Dave Gorman: Stop Worrying...Dave Gormanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02260701102207639816noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-21551411645187692722009-11-09T21:28:33.814+00:002009-11-09T21:28:33.814+00:00I think this is one of those debates that will nev...I think this is one of those debates that will never go away and is something that depends on personal context. As a Christian, I disagree with the comment "but it is very easy as an atheist to feel like you have no voice". <br />For me, personally, it is the other way around. In my experience, Christians seem to be under attack from atheists (not all of them, obviously) who make personal attacks on us and insult us on the basis of 'intelligence' for example. To atheists, they think we're attacking them with evangelism.<br /><br />I would like to think: why can't we all just leave each other alone and stop thrusting our agendas in each other's faces?Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14417978876714003366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-67427317394471237832009-11-09T21:23:15.066+00:002009-11-09T21:23:15.066+00:00@Anonymous re: complaining about sexually suggesti...@Anonymous re: complaining about sexually suggestive advertising: we complain about it all the time.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14417978876714003366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-90255345044866912822009-11-05T13:15:00.608+00:002009-11-05T13:15:00.608+00:00I notice that not one of these 'campaigners...I notice that not one of these 'campaigners' for Christianity seems to have complained at the plethora of imagery of sexually posed women, used as advertising bait that fill our buses, trains, magazines etc every day? I wonder if that Christian bus driver is similarly incensed by such imagery? I also wonder if the bus company would have taken a complaint by a female bus driver bearing one of these images seriously? I can't see it, can you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-37144425278429223202009-03-13T01:50:00.000+00:002009-03-13T01:50:00.000+00:00I did enjoy this campaign. I never came into conta...I did enjoy this campaign. I never came into contact with it on public transport but at a bar called, rather appropriately, sinners who had bought/stolen one of the posters. <BR/><BR/><BR/>also before i post this i'm really enjoying the fact that the word verification i need to type is "godwar"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-61924349439864773762009-02-09T15:37:00.000+00:002009-02-09T15:37:00.000+00:00@ Dave & everyoneIt does feel like we (atheist...@ Dave & everyone<BR/><BR/>It does feel like we (atheists) have no voice however there is the Humanist Society <BR/><BR/>http://www.humanism.org.uk/homeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-82031925009554309782009-02-07T20:40:00.000+00:002009-02-07T20:40:00.000+00:00@Dave GormanI get your point about faith being bey...@Dave Gorman<BR/><BR/>I get your point about faith being beyond question. For example over the last century many secular institutions and clubs that were closed to women have been challenged and now there are few left which still discriminate. However when an secular institution recently reviewed it's prayer facilities, they received a request from the Islamic community not to provide prayer space from women. They complied because it was a faith issue, and they did not want to question faith. <BR/><BR/>In both the Catholic and Anglican Churches women are bared from senior leadership. Looking back over the history books originally the reason for not ordaining women was that they were inferior to men. Over the last century the essential inferiority of women that has been completely debunked, and so many opponents of women in ministry fall back to the argument that 'it is simply the will of God'. Such arguments are beyond rational challenge. <BR/><BR/>This is not just an academic question it is a matter of human rights. A little wile ago a one of the UN's officers who was previously charged with protecting free speech has had his job description rewritten so that he now protects religious groups from attack. As one national newspaper put it Instead of defending Salman Rushdie they will now be charged with attacking him. And there are numerous examples where censorship is happening where ever religion rears its head. <BR/><BR/>When I read your posting there was a lot I wanted to say, in the end I opted for the moral equivalence argument because it seemed the briefest, but at base, my objections were that I don't really like the advert. It seems to be saying “Don't be like those idiot theists who spend their lives living in fear of hell, be like us sensible people. It's more fun!” As someone who doesn't believe that a loving God sends people to hell for not believing in him I don't like this.<BR/><BR/> As a theist I am accused of being, homophobic, sexist and a bigot but mostly of being irrational and stupid. I suppose I am over-sensitive on this point. Certainly when you said faith was beyond question I reacted by defending myself against the charge that I hadn't thought things through. <BR/><BR/>I tried to make an argument, but actually perhaps all I should have said is “I find this advert hurtful and I hope your not smiling because you think we're idiots too.”<BR/><BR/>I'm not asking for the advert not to run or to be beyond criticism or never to be offended, quite the opposite, I am just expressing how I feel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-1669830195539548452009-02-07T20:39:00.000+00:002009-02-07T20:39:00.000+00:00Dave Gorman wrote: The only really fair analogy is...<B>Dave Gorman wrote:</B> The only really fair analogy is between two legal, equal and opposite, ads.<BR/><BR/><B>Simon:</B> <I>Yes absolutely. I tried to find an analogy with say the BNP after all their ads are legal but most of us wouldn't want to be involved in spreading their message. But then I backtracked as I didn't want to equate Nazis and Atheists. But your example is better because it is legal and equivalent.</I><BR/><BR/><B>Dave Gorman:</B> If such an ad was run and such an objection raised what do you think would happen?<BR/><BR/><B>Simon:</B> <I>I think you're right lack of belief would not be treated as even handedly as belief.</I><BR/><BR/><B>Dave Gorman:</B> What do you think should happen?<BR/><BR/><B>Simon:</B> <I>I think the bus driver should drive the bus. Jesus was mocked and crucified. It does my head in that his followers are desperate to have laws that protect them from offense and allow them to discriminate. Just drive the sodding bus I say. But if that doesn't work your proposal: </I> We'll carry any legal advert but we understand that sometimes an advert might compromise you morally, in which case we'll do everything we can to ensure you don't have to drive that ad.<I> seems to me the best</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-1061199242729099122009-01-24T09:07:00.000+00:002009-01-24T09:07:00.000+00:00DaveDo you Love your Father and Mother?Prove it!Pl...Dave<BR/><BR/>Do you Love your Father and Mother?<BR/><BR/>Prove it!<BR/><BR/>Please don't say probably. . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-65747596741835862282009-01-23T23:06:00.000+00:002009-01-23T23:06:00.000+00:00Thank god for atheists!Thank god for atheists!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-9051448691234174802009-01-23T11:26:00.000+00:002009-01-23T11:26:00.000+00:00It seems to me that there is a more ridiculed grou...It seems to me that there is a more ridiculed group than atheists, Christians who don't take the bible literally. Probably the majority of Christians in the UK (although not the most vocal) don't have any time for Eternal Damnation, or bizzarre ceremonies involving reciatals, bells and smells. Every time they see someone declaring that Darwin was wrong imagine how embarrassed they feel on behalf of their religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-73929041671786911162009-01-22T18:18:00.000+00:002009-01-22T18:18:00.000+00:00Nathan - I once gave up a job rather than suffer a...Nathan - I once gave up a job rather than suffer a thumb print scanner. I didn't think it would take my soul or change my mind...<BR/><BR/>What I thought was that we, as workers, were not even asked to use a tool to 'punch in' - we would be the tool that punched in and thus the entire workforce who had to use it [note it was not one of those time machines which is used by all as it would give a print out of who's present in case of fire etc etc] would be degraded into objectified work units. <BR/><BR/>As opposed to valued employees.<BR/><BR/>Was that superstition?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-44762602087705660232009-01-22T17:55:00.000+00:002009-01-22T17:55:00.000+00:00Nathan said... "Not too many people will work for ...Nathan said... "Not too many people will work for free over their superstition driven reasons"...<BR/><BR/>....just to examine that comment a little.....there are many people who, rather than "work for free", choose not to participate in certain lines of work, because they are unable to reconcile that practice with their belief, be it their Christian faith, or some other moral/ethical objection. On the whole, those decisions made are not based on "superstition", but on a well considered code of ethics/belief system, call it what you will....but it ain't superstition.<BR/>The Christian faith is still with us today, in part, because a small bunch of people continued to believe and encouage others to believe, even though, for nearly all of them, it meant their lives were cut short when they were executed by those in authority...and that is something which still continues today.<BR/>To dismiss peoples' beliefs as merely superstition is, in the majority of cases, a poorly thought through arguement.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02662258237812843615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-72858566781734839562009-01-22T16:14:00.000+00:002009-01-22T16:14:00.000+00:00This is along the lines of the muslims refusing to...This is along the lines of the muslims refusing to stack alcohol in shops, or take dogs in taxis at airports.<BR/>My take is: stop paying them until they do their job properly. Not too many people will work for free over their superstition driven reasons.<BR/><BR/>I posted about how we don't respect religious beliefs really (<A HREF="http://nathan-lee.com/blog/2009/01/22/respecting-beliefs-from-the-dark-ages-metaphorically-of-course/" REL="nofollow">Respecting beliefs from the dark ages.. Metaphorically of course</A> )<BR/>This is no different. Someone believes they can beat their wives: well, no you can't. Someone thinks they can refuse to do their job (drive a bus, dispense medication or give medical advice in a neutral manner that isn't theology based etc): well, no you can't. Until you can: you work for free or we get someone who will do the job they're employed to do.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07743083626700897251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-41824165023033866742009-01-22T16:12:00.000+00:002009-01-22T16:12:00.000+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07743083626700897251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-22738951199151021882009-01-22T16:03:00.000+00:002009-01-22T16:03:00.000+00:00If democracy isn't the rule by the majority then w...If democracy isn't the rule by the majority then what is it? Personally, I don't like democracy and most folk laugh when I tell them what I'd rather - rule by consensus which would mean that the majority would not have the glorified right to make legal distinctions about themselves as opposed to others.<BR/><BR/>I can't quite remember whether I picked up that word reading these comments or not and I'm not going to reread them all to check...<BR/><BR/>I agree that to find a web address that's advertised that warns folk about hell is deplorable. Are you saying that the bus add was aimed at those folk who looked it up? Because then that would be admirable.<BR/><BR/>You may not have had a rap on your door by an evangelical atheist but quite a few of them have managed to get into my sitting room via the idiot lantern. And there is a bias that precludes positive evidence based programmes re faiths historicalness that goes back to the eighties. Note that the rather recent 'faith' programmes are based on individual perspectives and not on an evidential basis unlike some other programmes which were concerned with evolution and then were used to say 'Look, no God under that bed!'<BR/><BR/>If I were a bus driver, I'd drive the bus, I can sympathise with someone who shares my faith who doesn't want to but we are all different - just like atheists I suppose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-22141519420940269212009-01-22T15:35:00.000+00:002009-01-22T15:35:00.000+00:00Tim wrote:"I suppose the advert shows the differen...<B>Tim wrote</B>:<I>"I suppose the advert shows the difference between people who believe this life is all there is, and those who believe there is something better to come?"</I><BR/><BR/><B>Me:</B> Exactly!Dave Gormanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260701102207639816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-65765479194783232022009-01-22T15:12:00.000+00:002009-01-22T15:12:00.000+00:00Free to think, free to believe wrote: I don't mind...<B>Free to think, free to believe wrote</B>: <I>I don't mind having these posters up but what I find annoying are some of their preconceptions.</I><BR/><BR/><B>me</B>: Of course. I feel much the same way about Christian advertising. It's the people who do mind these posters being there that I find strangely defensive and intolerant.<BR/><BR/><B>Free to...:</B><I>"Hepburn said there was no God and that we should be good to each other. Are these two beliefs actually related to each other? As folk who do believe in God/Gods also feel that they should be good to each other?"</I><BR/><BR/><B>me</B>: No, I don't think the two things are meant to be connected. There's a full stop in between them. And the clause '<I>I believe the only thing we <B>can</B> know</I>' is there too. It doesn't come close to presuming that being-good-to-one-another is the sole preserve of atheists.<BR/><BR/>But as it goes I get equally annoyed when I see the view that morality can only be derived from scripture... which implies that atheists can have none. But this is the same point again... I'm not expecting you to agree with the poster, just to be as tolerant of its existence as I would expect an atheist to be of a theist advert.<BR/><BR/>The article linked to in the post explains where the <I>'Don't worry...'</I> tagline comes from... it's a reaction against a Christian ad that had a URL where the curious were warned that unbelievers would spend eternity in hell. Which is a worrisome thought. And to my mind, not an encouragement to enjoy life either. But this is the same point again. I'm not trying to persuade you to like or agree with the ad, only to be tolerant of it.<BR/><BR/><B>Free to...</B>:<I>"According to another debate I heard that the percentage of Atheists in the UK was 18% so yes there are a good number but then if you believe in democracy you'd surely be glad that the majority [folk who aren't atheists] are given distinctions.</I><BR/><BR/><B>Me</B>: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by <I>distinctions</I>... but if you mean that the majority should be given an advantage or some privilege... then no I don't. A corollary of this thought would be to count how many Catholics vs Protestants there are in any given society and give the larger number <I>distinctions</I>... that's not what democracy means to me at all.<BR/><BR/>I think we should all be free to worship - or not - as we see fit. I think your screenname is a fine ideal to aspire to... we should all be free to think and free to believe. Whether that means believing in God, or believing there is none, we should be free to reach our own conclusion...<BR/><BR/><B>Free to...</B>:<I>Or do you think that being right gives the impetus to try to educate folk so that they in the end will agree with you?</I><BR/><BR/><B>Me</B>: I think that's a two way street. But nobody's ever approached me in the street, sat next to me on a train or knocked on my front door to try and persuade me to join an atheist group so anecdotally it seems to me that the impetus to try to educate folk so that they in the end will agree with you is most keenly felt by the Christian community.Dave Gormanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260701102207639816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-27417382664925916962009-01-22T14:33:00.000+00:002009-01-22T14:33:00.000+00:00Although as a believer, I understand the problem t...Although as a believer, I understand the problem the bus driver might have had with the advert, the idea that he in some way could pick and choose the bus he drove according to the adverts is rather laughable......I wonder if he refused to drive a bus with the advert for the "zack and miri make a porno" movie?<BR/><BR/>Like "free to think, free to believe" its the tagline NOW STOP WORRYING AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE that caught my eye as some pretty useless advice.<BR/>"Hey, you've just been diagnosed with a terminal illness.....you've just lost your job.....now stop worrying and enjoy your life"...Mmmm??<BR/>I suppose the advert shows the difference between people who believe this life is all there is, and those who believe there is something better to come?Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02662258237812843615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-10677042386957185092009-01-22T12:22:00.000+00:002009-01-22T12:22:00.000+00:00Well, I was going to start somewhere else but that...Well, I was going to start somewhere else but that comment about folk not being killed in the name of atheism kind of stuck.<BR/><BR/>There was a story [how many of these don't make it out?] from Vietnam - an atheist state where a family in a village was put under the bulldozer [literally] because they would not renounce their faith (christian but I don't think that that's so important in this debate)... It was around the turn of 2000 so I have no idea where you'd find it now.<BR/><BR/>Folk have been killed in the name of atheism - just like folk have been killed for any old beliefs, ie not what the ruling party says you should believe.<BR/><BR/>I don't mind having these posters up but what I find annoying are some of their preconceptions. Hepburn said there was no God and that we should be good to each other. Are these two beliefs actually related to each other? As folk who do believe in God/Gods also feel that they should be good to each other?<BR/><BR/>And the end tagline - Now Stop Worrying and Enjoy your life...<BR/><BR/>If we believe in God does that mean we don't enjoy life?<BR/><BR/>According to another debate I heard that the percentage of Atheists in the UK was 18% so yes there are a good number but then if you believe in democracy you'd surely be glad that the majority [folk who aren't atheists] are given distinctions. Or do you think that being right gives the impetus to try to educate folk so that they in the end will agree with you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-88818077226832253262009-01-22T11:37:00.000+00:002009-01-22T11:37:00.000+00:00Southampton Simon said:"As to faith being beyond q...<B>Southampton Simon said:</B><I>"As to faith being beyond question, well I think that is just a caricature. If my faith was beyond question I would never have gone off and spent the best part of 5 years studying it. Actually calling it into question."</I><BR/><BR/><B>me</B>:I didn't mean that you hadn't questioned, examined and challenged your own faith. I meant that when someone objects to something on grounds of faith, our default setting is to be understanding and accommodating - because we daren't question that faith or the validity of the offence caused. <BR/>That's all well and good - and I did say in the original post that I thought it was genuinely nice of the bus company to accommodate this driver as they have done - all I'm pointing out is the inequality at work. The same latitude would not be given to a driver who objected to driving a bus that carried a Christian ad even though the offence might be just as deeply felt.<BR/><BR/>In fact, what I mean when I say that faith is beyond question is illustrated in your last post when you say, <I>"The driver felt that this bus was in total opposition to his faith. You used the example of a Jewish person refusing to drive a bus which advertised pork. I simply said it's not the same. Jewish people do not believe that pork is evil, nor do they have a problem with others eating it, they just don't eat it themselves. <B>Whereas this statement is opposed to this man's complete faith</B>."</I><BR/><BR/><B>Simon wrote</B>:<I>"The point is this blog is written by an atheist, and commented on by atheists...so no one has sympathy for this man, I'm just trying to supply that."</I><BR/><BR/><B>me</B>: Actually the first response to this post comes from a theist. And you're here too... so there's no exclusive atheist gang reading and commenting here. I'm sorry you feel that I have no sympathy for the driver. I do. I'd like to live in a world where more people were prepared to take (peaceful) action based on their principles. My post is more about the way the bus company has reacted than the way he has behaved. <BR/><BR/><B>Simon wrote</B>:<I>"My original point was simply to illustrate that there is a point beyond which we are not prepared to go. 'At what point' I asked 'would you refuse to drive the bus?'."</I><BR/><BR/><B>me</B>: Yup. I get that. And yes, I'd like to think I have principles strong enough that mean I would refuse to drive a particular bus. (But it's easy to say that when my financial wellbeing and the food on my non-existent kid's table doesn't depend on me doing so... so who really knows?)<BR/><BR/><B>Simon</B>:<I>"When it said for example 'There is a God, so stop being Gay' or other odious intolerance, you would, sensibly utterly disagree with?"</I><BR/><BR/><B>me</B>: And yep, I think that would do it. But that's a bad analogy for me because it's a moot point. <I>That</I> ad wouldn't be allowed because it's homophobic so nobody would ever be asked to drive a bus with it on the side. The only really fair analogy is between two legal, equal and opposite, ads.<BR/><BR/>I'm all for the bus company being sympathetic to this man's views I'm simply saying that there are other, just as deeply felt, views that should be treated equally. It's difficult to see where the bus company should draw the line. They could have a policy that says:<BR/><I>We'll carry any legal advert and if one offends you, well you'll have to seek employment elsewhere.</I><BR/>Or they could have a policy that says:<BR/><I>We'll carry any legal advert but we understand that sometimes an advert might compromise you morally, in which case we'll do everything we can to ensure you don't have to drive that ad.</I><BR/><BR/>Both of which are even handed and fair.<BR/><BR/>What doesn't work for me is a world where the policy is:<BR/><I>We'll carry any legal ad. Of course if anyone feels an ad is contrary to their faith we'll be understanding, but all other moral objections will be ignored.</I><BR/><BR/>Now obviously we don't know how this bus company would react if there was a Christian ad - <I>Good news! There is a God... and if you don't believe me, you can go to hell!</I> and an atheist objected... but I seriously doubt they would have been so understanding.<BR/><BR/>If such an ad was run and such an objection raised what do you think would happen? What do you think should happen?Dave Gormanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260701102207639816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-39407789877437762062009-01-22T08:20:00.000+00:002009-01-22T08:20:00.000+00:00Dave: "You're right, an atheist doesn't believe th...Dave: "You're right, an atheist doesn't believe there is a God (or Gods). But that doesn't give them the right to state the absence of God as a fact in ads on buses."<BR/><BR/>Equally, the religionists cannot prove that there is a good. Their only answer is along the lines of: "Look around you. Who created all this?" Which is a pathetic response, if you ask me. Anyway, the religionists cannot prove the existence of god but they seem to be allowed to advertise all sorts of unproveable things in their adverts. The existence of a god for one thing. In Hackney I've seen billboards where there are claims made for "healing", for goodness sake! Maybe I should've complained to the ASA, but I've got more important things to do with my time.<BR/><BR/>PJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-5079313488723377712009-01-21T23:12:00.000+00:002009-01-21T23:12:00.000+00:00I have equally read a series of quotes that proved...I have equally read a series of quotes that proved Hitler was an atheist.<BR/><BR/>Surely the point is that he was a nutter so it doesn't matter what he believed?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-63655280713537364032009-01-21T23:09:00.000+00:002009-01-21T23:09:00.000+00:00@ Dave:My original point was simply to illustrate ...@ Dave:<BR/><BR/>My original point was simply to illustrate that there is a point beyond which we are not prepared to go. 'At what point' I asked 'would you refuse to drive the bus?'. When it said for example 'There is a God, so stop being Gay' or other odious intolerance, you would, sensibly utterly disagree with? <BR/><BR/>The driver felt that this bus was in total opposition to his faith. You used the example of a Jewish person refusing to drive a bus which advertised pork. I simply said it's not the same. Jewish people do not believe that pork is evil, nor do they have a problem with others eating it, they just don't eat it themselves. Whereas this statement is opposed to this man's complete faith.<BR/><BR/>The point is this blog is written by an atheist, and commented on by atheists...so no one has sympathy for this man, I'm just trying to supply that. <BR/><BR/>that's all.<BR/><BR/>As to faith being beyond question, well I think that is just a caricature. If my faith was beyond question I would never have gone off and spent the best part of 5 years studying it. Actually calling it into question. Getting other people to question my beliefs and adapting my ideas based on what I found to be the truth. My opinions constantly change, sometimes even things you say alter my opinions. <BR/><BR/>If my faith was not open to question, I would have to stay indoors and hide under a blanket.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-19806989786453124402009-01-19T14:07:00.000+00:002009-01-19T14:07:00.000+00:00I thought they had to say "probably" because the A...I thought they had to say "probably" because the ASA made them. Like Carlsberg not being the best lager in the world, and having to stop the "Guinness is Good for You" campaign.<BR/><BR/>I find I want to believe in God as I get older and nearer the end of life - I want there to be more than just being. But I have gone 54 years not believing in God, and this worries me. Is belief in God just a great big blankie, that we hug to ourselves in cold, lonely nights? <BR/><BR/>I think I prefer people who do not steal from me because stealing is wrong than those who feel they will burn in hell for ever if they did. What might they do if they found out they would not burn in eternal damnation? At least with atheists you can assess them on what they do, not what they believe in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-79758240131681067512009-01-19T13:53:00.000+00:002009-01-19T13:53:00.000+00:00Dave, your penultimate paragraph on the last comme...Dave, your penultimate paragraph on the last comment said it all. It's about respect. If someone is confident and happy with their beliefs they should not feel threatened by the views and beliefs of others. We're all entitled to believe what we like. And we should all be allowed to talk openly about those beliefs without fear. Thanks for popping by BTW. xStevyn Colganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06152745065245344159noreply@blogger.com