tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post8797533955161380363..comments2024-03-20T10:01:20.599+00:00Comments on Dave Gorman: More BTDave Gormanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02260701102207639816noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-91692187688249690472008-09-12T18:26:00.000+01:002008-09-12T18:26:00.000+01:00There are a few companies trying to sort out their...There are a few companies trying to sort out their customer service, with the help of a guru called John Seddon. His book "I want you to cheat" is an enlightening read on how call centres work, or rather why they don't and what to do about it.marksanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01520830611440112455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-65373918856737262402008-08-22T02:55:00.000+01:002008-08-22T02:55:00.000+01:00Wow! I'm a bit chastened with my rushing in to say...Wow! I'm a bit chastened with my rushing in to say I used to work in telephone repair! For BT, no less...<BR/><BR/>It was a bit different in my day. Not much, just a bit. Sorry.<BR/><BR/>Carolyn AnnAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00333372966116029977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-31134034278992999762008-08-17T19:22:00.000+01:002008-08-17T19:22:00.000+01:00Agreed that Zen has reportedly the best customer s...Agreed that Zen has reportedly the best customer service although I have just taken up Be Broadband ('up to 24meg' = currently showing 13.6 at my house which is pretty impresive all the same) and they have been utterly brilliant also from start to finish. No minimum term either so if it goes t*ts up, move on.<BR/><BR/>Oh and avoid the previously-excellent Demon like the plague if the Cable & Wireless bid for parent company Thus goes through, after which it'll be dead in the water in 6 months (a la Bulldog).<BR/><BR/>Geek out.fourstar71https://www.blogger.com/profile/17912282320117440112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-88110188008590148212008-08-14T17:49:00.000+01:002008-08-14T17:49:00.000+01:00Hi Dave,Going through a similar problem at the mom...Hi Dave,<BR/><BR/>Going through a similar problem at the moment, only not with broadband, with my phone lines - BT managed to renumber both of them... Didn't bother telling me they'd done it, or what the new numbers were...<BR/><BR/>So for the last week no-one's been able to contact me, while I've spent days battling with customer services to try to get my old numbers back.<BR/><BR/>I found Ian Livingston's email address this morning (along with loads of <A HREF="http://www.connectotel.com/marcus/ceoemail.html" REL="nofollow">other CEOs' email addresses</A>), so I emailed him and got a reply within the hour. Impressed, although I'm not entirely convinced it wasn't automated, or whether the promise of getting the 'high level service team' on the case will actually do any good... I asked for an engineer to call me back today - nothing so far... Your story is encouraging though (and brought a bit of light relief to an otherwise f**ked up week) so thanks for posting it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-82137205646500910582008-08-08T14:59:00.000+01:002008-08-08T14:59:00.000+01:00Hi DaveI spent 14 hours on the phone to BT, in one...Hi Dave<BR/>I spent 14 hours on the phone to BT, in one week, trying to sort out a similar problem having similar conversations. I got compensation credit on the account in the end, but only as I kept insisting. I can't wait till my contract ends! Gah!Anna Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695225528172219529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-28597456467140687772008-08-05T12:58:00.000+01:002008-08-05T12:58:00.000+01:00Dave,In general the reason that problems don't get...Dave,<BR/><BR/>In general the reason that problems don't get escalated to 'those who know' is because the call centre has a metric of how many calls are passed on, with targets for minimising it.<BR/><BR/>From the PoV of the business they don't want the call centre pushing everything towards those that can (which is the obvious way for them to make their life easy), so its discouraged.<BR/><BR/>That means its in the call centres interest to fob you off and push you on to the next person you phone, rather than taking the time and metric hit of getting someone useful involved.<BR/><BR/>In that situation either find another route (which you did) or get the exact name of the individual responsible and threaten to make a formal complaint about them to the organisation. The balance of fear will then get your call escalated properly.<BR/><BR/>Of course, if the company didn't have such simplistic and counter-productive targets in the first place...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-12543011610683638352008-08-01T18:18:00.000+01:002008-08-01T18:18:00.000+01:00I had a very similar ordeal recently. Having spent...I had a very similar ordeal recently. <BR/><BR/>Having spent 2 months trying to order broadband and phone line (admittedly a little complex due to my home having 2 additional retired lines in it) ahead of returning to the UK after some time out travelling, I arrived back to find it wasn't connected.<BR/><BR/>It took 7 failed attempts to then reorder the line, and when they did switch it on it had an immediate fault and I had a strikingly similar experience, report fault, get told it's fixed etc.<BR/><BR/>I won't go into detail because I am getting annoyed just writing this - just one statistic. <BR/><BR/>27 hours of mobile phone calls.<BR/><BR/>"couldn't care less" must be like their staff training mantra - or is it "computer says no"?<BR/><BR/>Its a bloody wonder they EVER connect anyone.<BR/><BR/>... and breathe ..Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16718377641134009613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-75650147642942765062008-08-01T17:11:00.000+01:002008-08-01T17:11:00.000+01:00Dave,Can you email Ian Livingston, and asking him ...Dave,<BR/>Can you email Ian Livingston, and asking him when BT are going to ditch Webwise?<BR/>See the <A HREF="http://www.inphormationdesk.org" REL="nofollow">Inphormation Desk for details</A>.<BR/>You might wish you hadn't tried so hard to get your BT line fixed. :)<BR/>PeteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-82239699496795711512008-08-01T11:00:00.000+01:002008-08-01T11:00:00.000+01:00Dave,I had exactly the same story to tell two year...Dave,<BR/><BR/>I had exactly the same story to tell two years ago - my saviour was a great lady called Jacky. At the end of the whole saga I wrote to her boss and got a nice email back which included the line "Jacky is indeed a very valued member of my Team and of BT." I hope that Jacky received the recognition that she justifiably deserved. The 8 hours of 0870 buildup prior to that showed just how variable BTs response was (and unfortunately still is).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-82918467559657167172008-08-01T10:03:00.000+01:002008-08-01T10:03:00.000+01:00from my experience the only UK ISP that has decent...from my experience the only UK ISP that has decent customer service is Zen Internet. they do charge a premium over other ISPs (which is the only reason i personally left them, although most my clients are with them) but if cost isn't overly a concern then i would heartily recommend them. literally all of their CS staff know what they're talking about. its a breath of fresh air having to ring them after battling BT or virgin or the hell on earth that is AOLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-60501682338548545502008-07-31T23:21:00.000+01:002008-07-31T23:21:00.000+01:00Having worked for an isp I know that some of the f...Having worked for an isp I know that some of the first line support isn't great due to mixture of the people they hire, inadequate training and a lack of resources. Plus they maybe getting paid buttons so I cannot really expect a front line agent to care and have any kind of pride in their work so believe they are just going through the motions.<BR/><BR/>Unless you are on an LLU line once your issue has been diagnosed as<BR/>needing the intervention of openreach or BTW to resolve the issue<BR/>your isp has no option but to escalate this to diagnostic officers within the BT organisation from their diagnostics it is decided if an engineer will physically attend the exchange or the customers premises to resolve the issue. Sometimes they will even send it back saying their is no issue, which means the isp will probably contact you to see if the issue is resolved.<BR/><BR/>What customers need to remember is that the troubleshooting they are asked to do is partly for there benefit, as it could become a costly site visit to the customer if an engineer just replaces a filter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-8207103195275588672008-07-31T20:28:00.000+01:002008-07-31T20:28:00.000+01:00Take your point re Virgin, Dave. Have to admit th...Take your point re Virgin, Dave. Have to admit that since I've been using them the service hasn't failed so I haven't had a chance to find out how bad their customer service is.<BR/><BR/>Still think the Vodafone dongle is worth a try. I'm using it on a £360 Dell I bought from Tesco and it is life-changingly fantastic. Spent some of today working in a pub here in deepest West Berkshire and it was, I have to say, just bliss. Just me, the Dell and my dongle. Bliss.<BR/><BR/>(I don't work for Virgin, Vodafone, Dell or Tesco: only myself.)<BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/5hauwsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-30965844284712743992008-07-31T20:15:00.000+01:002008-07-31T20:15:00.000+01:00I had a BT helpdesk person once ask me what I was ...I had a BT helpdesk person once ask me what I was doing at the weekend, while he was running a 'test' on my line.<BR/><BR/>I was already annoyed that my phone wasn't working through the router, but that freaked me out (like you say Dave, they have your number and address). I told him it wasn't any of his business.<BR/><BR/>Is that in the script? Be sleazy to female callers?<BR/><BR/>He didn't apologise. Just carried on with what he was doing. And was very smug when the thing he suggested worked, and it hadn't done before, making me look stupid.<BR/><BR/>Other than that though... I have always had more success when explaining things directly to an engineer. And the 'if your phone is down we'll cover the cost of your mobile calls' thing is nice. My phone/'tweb isn't an essential item.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-44194540088102962642008-07-31T19:34:00.000+01:002008-07-31T19:34:00.000+01:00Hi DaveI'm having a problem with T Mobile at the m...Hi Dave<BR/><BR/>I'm having a problem with T Mobile at the moment. Can I give you the details and get you to sort it please? Dominic Littlewood would do it but he's a bit busy. If you don't do it then i'll have to try and contact Ruth Badger.<BR/><BR/>RobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-14115977267961057962008-07-31T19:10:00.000+01:002008-07-31T19:10:00.000+01:00@anonymous#1: Yes, it has happened where someone o...@anonymous#1: Yes, it has happened where someone on a helpdesk has asked if I'm _that_ Dave Gorman or not. To be honest I hate it when it happens in that context. The person invariably has my home phone number and address in front of them and it seems like an inappropriate question... especially if they're not being very good at their job.<BR/><BR/>@biz king: I got the CEO's e-mail address because someone left it in the comments to my last post. You can find it there as easily as I can. And to be honest, if you know his name you can take a good guess and get it right.<BR/><BR/>@BT dude: Thanks.<BR/><BR/>@ian kynnersley: you're probably right. But I've had problems with other helpdesks before and this is the first one where the solution when it's come has been genuinely impressive. With other companies I've had bad service that has bumbled along to an eventual conclusion... I've not witnessed someone step in and crack the whip so effectively before. I agree that it's unlikely to change, but I do believe they want it to... I know that's not much but...<BR/><BR/>@neuro: to be honest I suspect that BT does have that two tier system. It's just that the first tier is so incompetent and so script-locked that they don't even know how to escalate things to the second tier. Which gives me an image of a big room full of well-trained, helpful, competent staff doing nothing. The people I've been speaking to _were_ supposed to escalate my case to another team but didn't even know how to do that.<BR/><BR/>@Andrew Cooper: I won't be switching to virgin.net. I used to be with them and defected to BT because they were so ridiculously appalling. And in spite of this recent episode I'd say that Virgin were definitely worse when it came to customer service. With BT it feels like I encountered a poorly trained and unmotivated staff who failed to follow company policy (don't just read the words on the screen/escalate a case that hasn't been solved in 48 hours/if a message doesn't get through pick up the phone and communicate etc etc.) This is bad and they failed to solve the problem because of it. But if they were well trained the problem would have been solved.<BR/><BR/>With Virgin I never got the impression that people were incompetent. They did follow company policy and procedures. And they also failed to solve problems. (Actually, they normally spent two days denying there was a problem until the number of complainants reached some kind of critical mass... only then would they try to solve things). <BR/><BR/>It seems to me that Virgin's procedures were inadequate. Training staff to use the system correctly would solve BT's problems. A tall order, I know. Training the staff to use Virgin's systems wouldn't solve anything in my experience.Dave Gormanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02260701102207639816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-21163093800139712122008-07-31T17:40:00.000+01:002008-07-31T17:40:00.000+01:00Let me be honest, Dave. I gave up reading half way...Let me be honest, Dave. I gave up reading half way through. And I thought my blog posts were too long.<BR/>Posts like that need a management summary, and possibly an appendix or two. <BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, please could you let me know whether you're going to be the first celebrity guest to enter my World's Best Innovation competition (aka the - uselessly named Brainies) about which I emailed you yesterday. If not, I fully understand and will move onto number 2 on my list.<BR/><BR/>Cheers<BR/><BR/>Andrew <BR/><BR/>PS - try switching to Virgin: works fine for me. Also, buy a Vodafone 3G dongle: if it wasn't for the kids needing to have wifi here at home I'd drop Virgin and just use Vodafone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-78871936723025315962008-07-31T17:39:00.000+01:002008-07-31T17:39:00.000+01:00I am having my own BT nightmare right now!http://c...I am having my own BT nightmare right now!<BR/>http://colinknits.blogspot.com/2008/07/calling-dr-bombay.htmlAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14864658805462324550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-8651160066183687252008-07-31T16:29:00.000+01:002008-07-31T16:29:00.000+01:00I work in a call centre for a communications compa...I work in a call centre for a communications company and I understand exactly how you feel.<BR/><BR/>So many times I have heard colligues of mine give out information that simply confuses people instead of brteaking it down into plain english. What's the point of telling customers they need to do a manual network update to reconfigure their access to the network when in real terms it means you have to turn your phone off and on and then seearch for a network.<BR/><BR/>I also have experience working on an IT helpdesk and it is true that 90% - 95% of calls are usually in the same league as 'try plugging the monitor in' or 'have you installed the drivers?' That's why I left. With all the knowledge of computer hardware and software diagnosis systems I found myself turning into another dribbling moron reading information on a screen.<BR/><BR/>It is hard to get motivated people to sitt willingly infront of a screen for 8 - 10 hours without loosing the will to live. So I'm afraid getting any true change would only happen with shorter shifts for call center staff or teaching every single member of the public to make sure everything is plugged in and turned on before they pick up the phone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-58087982126309827512008-07-31T16:09:00.000+01:002008-07-31T16:09:00.000+01:00Dave, you mentioned having a two-tier system in pl...Dave, <BR/><BR/>you mentioned having a two-tier system in place ... in fact this is how most competent ISPs work, at least the ones I have worked for or dealt with. The frontline support handle the "easy" or simple queries that can be dealt with by a script. If something has to be escalated, it progresses to the second tier, or second line support guys and gals, who are usually located in the UK and are very, very competent at their jobs. They do not have scripts. However, some companies will be reticent to escalate problems to their second line, and you're stuck with the "I'm your last port of call" bullshit, when actually a friendly, technical staff member could deal with your queries and problems quickly and efficiently.<BR/><BR/>I hate to join the chorus of "leave BT Broadband, leave it now", as the whole thing usually smacks of Harry Enfield going "you don't wanna do it like that, you wanna do it like this, you wanna do it the proper way" ... but yeah, leave BT Broadband, leave it now ;)Big Wulliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13655388500439654303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-56566928816090931142008-07-31T15:30:00.000+01:002008-07-31T15:30:00.000+01:00You have wasted a few hours of your life talking t...You have wasted a few hours of your life talking to people who live in a petridish and read from a script all day. Welcome to my world. I work in I.T. and I have to talk to morons like that regularly. I also hit the dead-end of 'I am your last port of call.' or words to that effect.<BR/><BR/>TIP: Don't call the rip off 0870 number, use www.saynoto0870.com and see if you can save yourself a few quid ;).Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399821156147149177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-90520636441198155722008-07-31T14:02:00.000+01:002008-07-31T14:02:00.000+01:00Hi DaveI fear you are being rather naive in thinki...Hi Dave<BR/><BR/>I fear you are being rather naive in thinking that anything will change at BT. Their helpdesk system and the business processes around it will be monolithic and the cost and hassle of doing anything to it is just not worth their time. It simply doesn't cost them enough to have useless, incompetent processes. There are always enough new people coming along who think that some 2 bit ISP won't be able to provide them with decent customer support so they'll go to BT instead.<BR/><BR/>I have worked for enough large companies to know that these things just don't matter to them. Certainly not to the people who make these decisions. They have shareholders to appease. <BR/><BR/>It is almost unheard of for a large company to offer anything other than abysmal customer service. Those that do have invariably grown from small companies founded with the very goal of providing good service (e.g. dealing with First Direct still puts a smile on my face every time)<BR/><BR/>Just hope it doesn't go down again!<BR/><BR/>IanUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08364197086574006065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-88919971256606723412008-07-31T12:12:00.000+01:002008-07-31T12:12:00.000+01:00I've had mixed experiences with BT. They repeatedl...I've had mixed experiences with BT. They repeatedly messed up in their attempts to deliver their TV service that I'd ordered off them, and that was annoying for a couple of weeks. But the only time I needed to call them for technical reasons, they were extremely professional and helpful. (The problem in the end was that the password they'd posted me for one of their services had a digit 1 in the middle of a string of lowercase letters and in the font they were using it looked exactly like a letter l.) They've not yet seemed to me to be any more or less incompetent than any other company. I guess their system just handles some kinds of fault well and others fall through the gaps in the procedures and you get Dave's experience.PaulThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16161058072419315297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-70364804678598160052008-07-31T12:06:00.000+01:002008-07-31T12:06:00.000+01:00I had a BT broadband wireless network problem on s...I had a BT broadband wireless network problem on saturday, it took 80 minutes for the helpdesk person to realise i knew what i talking about and put me through to an engineer who fixed it in 2. <BR/><BR/>At one point i asked the question:<BR/>Are you reading this off a script or do you actually understand the BT Broadband and Wireless Home Hub System?<BR/>Answer: Yes<BR/>To which one?<BR/>Answer: Can you tell me which operating system you are using?<BR/><BR/>ArrrgggghhhhhAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-69328928355113324612008-07-31T12:02:00.000+01:002008-07-31T12:02:00.000+01:00Who ever suggested Dave should take this nightmare...Who ever suggested Dave should take this nightmare tale of ISP non-service-providing - brilliant! I definately think it would strike a chord with a lot of people.<BR/><BR/>May you could even broadcast a live show over the web - and get it sponsored by BT?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4588205362847565197.post-60941437408350622282008-07-31T11:20:00.000+01:002008-07-31T11:20:00.000+01:00This is like a blog.This is like a blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com